Kenna state of emotion torrent

The dreamstate is a big amusement park and I would never encourage anyone to try to escape. That would be as absurd as suggesting that you commit suicide for your own good.

How can you want nothing? Empty space is my reality. Concepts upon concepts until the only outcome is left, suicide of the mind, a realization of the limitation of concepts that try to describe something infinite, something beyond time, of which the mind cannot enter into.

Joshua takes over, which is another name for Jesus, which the Gnostics said was a metaphor for consciousness. Dream is dream, awake is awake. I only write about the theory of enlightenment. This writing is not based on idle philosophical speculation, but on reliable facts that anyone can observe for themselves. Since modern theoretical physics is based on the soundness of mathematics, this is the most reliable compendium of facts we have available.

This compendium of facts does not constitute an objective reality there is no such thing as objective reality as McKenna likes to point out , but is the basis for how each observer constructs its own world.

Why is this relevant for a discussion of enlightenment? The process that leads to truth realization is a process of deconstructing your own world, which always begins with a process of deconstructing the mentally constructed concept you have of being a person in that world your character in the dream state.

The only benefit of a good theory of enlightenment is it gives you some guidance about that deconstruction process. The science of modern cosmology and theoretical physics explains how that world is created in the first place, and so helps explain how to deconstruct that world, which always begins with the deconstruction of the mentally constructed concept you have of yourself as a person in that world.

The result of this confusion is you tend to walk around in small purposeless circles. Alice came to a fork in the road. The only good reason to have a sound theory of enlightenment, which is as sound as a mathematical theorem, is to avoid doing such a silly thing. Of course, this assumes that you really want to reach the final destination of the journey that is called truth realization. The other reason to have a sound theory is so you can avoid the whole mess if that is not what you really want.

McKenna has done a remarkably good job of explaining the theory of enlightenment, but in spite of this, most people who read his books have absolutely no idea what he is talking about. Most people who do have an inkling of what he is talking about hate it, and hate him for talking about it.

These people actually have their wits about them. The people who are clueless are the people who like reading McKenna and have no idea what he is talking about. Only a very few read him and become inspired to do something about their situations.

I wanted to say these things in such a mathematically tight way that there is no possibility of any confusion if the concepts are properly understood. If that is granted, all else follows. But what really interests me is where people are coming from when they communicate such seeming profundities. Nothing perceivable is real.

Reality is essentially alone. To know that nothing is, is true knowledge. The totality of all mental projections is the Great Illusion. When I look beyond the mind I see the witness. Beyond the witness is infinite emptiness and silence. For the path of return naughting oneself is necessary. My stand I take where nothing is. To the mind it is all darkness and silence.

It is deep and dark, mystery beyond mystery. It is, while all else merely happens. It is like a bottomless well, whatever falls into it disappears. Science is only a way of describing these creation and destruction processes. Only the undoing process is complicated, not the final destination of the journey.

The way to truth lies through the destruction of the false. To destroy the false you must question your most inveterate beliefs. Of these the idea that you are the body is the worst. It is the clinging to the false that makes the truth so difficult to see. You progress by rejection. To question is the essence of revolt. Without revolt there can be no freedom. Everything must be scrutinized and the unnecessary ruthlessly destroyed. There cannot be too much destruction. For in reality nothing is of value.

Investigate your world, apply your mind to it, examine it critically, scrutinize every idea about it. There is nothing wrong with the senses, it is your imagination that misleads you. There is a deep contradiction in your attitude which you do not see. See your world as it is, not as you imagine it to be.

See the person you imagine yourself to be as a part of the world you perceive within your mind and look at the mind from the outside, for you are not the mind. Go beyond, go back to the source, go to the Self that is the same whatever happens. See everything as emanating from the light which is the source of your own being. Find the immutable center where all movement takes birth. Be the axis at the center-not whirling at the periphery. Nothing stops you except fear. You are afraid of impersonal being.

This is how McKenna describes coming back from Nirvana:. Happily, I never know what my character is going to do or say until he does it or says it, so the whole thing stays interesting. Just to make the point clearly, this is how he describes the ascended state that follows after truth realization:. The enlightened view life as a dream, so how could they possibly differentiate between right and wrong or good and evil?

How can one turn of events be better or worse than another? If they did, they would be hauled off to the nearest mental health facility and treated for a delusional disorder. It must be a long way back if you have. Other than the direct experience of truth realization for oneself, the only way to understand it conceptually is to use concepts of modern theoretical physics, which are strange enough to encompass what truth-realized beings have to say about the experience.

The thing to be clear about is only the character of the truth-realized being as that character appears in the dream state can say these things, but only the truth-realized being itself knows what these words are talking about.

First important concept: the one-world-per-observer paradigm of modern cosmology cosmic solipsism. The cosmic horizon arises from the expansion of space itself the effect of dark energy. The observer itself is nothing more than the consciousness present at the center of its world. Second important concept: the holographic principle.

Those animated images tend to self-replicate their forms due to coherent organization that arises as bits of information align together. Third important concept: consensual reality the dream state. This is just like an interactive computer network generated virtual reality world displayed on multiple computer screens and observed by multiple observers. The observer itself is nothing more than a point of consciousness that perceives and illuminates the screen.

Every event in the flow of time is a decision point where choices are made, and only an observer can make those choices and choose what to observe with its focus of attention.

Fifth important concept: The nature of self-identification. The observer identifies itself with the animated form of its character that appears on its screen.

Sixth important concept: The metaphysical concept of turning around looking within , as the observer focuses its attention on the true spiritual nature of its existence. The perceiving point itself the consciousness present at the center of its world focuses its attention on its own timeless sense of being present the sense of I-am-ness. There are two consequence of looking within. The first is negation, as the observer rejects all the mentally constructed concepts it has of itself as an embodied person in its world its character that is emotionally related to other things in its world.

The observer looks within and finds nothing true except for its own presence. The observer rejects all the false self-knowledge it knows about itself and discovers that it is nothing more than a presence of consciousness. The observer cannot know what it is, it can only be what it is, nothing more than a point of consciousness that is timelessly present at the center of its own world, while all the animated images of that world are displayed on the screen surrounding the observer.

The second consequence of looking within is as the observer clearly sees the true nature of what it is, the observer also clearly sees that it is only defending the survival of an illusion of what it is its character with its self-defensive expressions. With this clear seeing, the observer surrenders and lets things play out in its world in the normal way without any interference. The observer chooses not to choose as it withdraws attention away from its world and focuses on its own sense of being present.

Without expressions of personal will, the observer no longer feels self-limited to the form of its character and no longer identifies itself with its character, which completes the negation process. The observer knows itself as nobody, nothing more than the consciousness present at the center of its world. Seventh important concept: Underlying reality. When the observer completely withdraws its attention away from its world, the observer no longer expends any energy in its world.

When the flow of energy comes to an end, the flow of time also comes to an end. As the observer detaches itself from its world, the observer enters into a state of ultimate free fall. The holographic screen is only a bounding surface of space an event horizon that arises because the observer is in an accelerated frame of reference.

That underlying reality is the nature of the unlimited empty space we call the void. This reunion is a dissolution. With its return to the Source, the observer dissolves into its source of undifferentiated consciousness like a drop of water dissolves into the ocean. The Source is a void of undifferentiated consciousness. Anyone who reads McKenna carefully will see that what is described above is exactly what McKenna describes, but is also what Nisargadatta describes, Osho describes, Ramana describes, … Truth realization is the same for everyone.

Delusion is different for everyone and is as complicated as there are people to imagine it. Final disclaimer: What is described above is only an explanation based on scientific concepts. One must directly experience for oneself what these concepts can only point towards and conceptually attempt to describe. As McKenna likes to say: Come see for yourself. As i see, either something although maybe it is not a thing is unchanging no matter what, no matter time, dimension etc… OR there is no such unchanging thing.

WHat a fuck is going on here? Such a position is fundamentally dualistic, when Jed maintains his position is of Non-dual abiding. The problem is with language and logic itself- it is always linear and partial, whereas reality truth is wildly complex. Thus paradoxical statements such as those you quote. Hello There. I found your blog using msn. This is a really well written article.

I will be sure to bookmark it and come back to read more of your useful info. To Anonymous- Nicely put! This process requires the re-cognition or knowing again of the futility of every path whatsoever. Whoever Jed is, and whatever he may or may not have said about awakening, I reckon that is what he was pointing to. But some people use it to dispose of the many erroneous beliefs and conceptions that they have relative to enlightenment and everything else, and which are leading them astray.

Does the method of spiritual autolysis necessarily leads ultimately to the absolute indifference of emotions towards anyone and anything? I am definitely not in a place to judge which one is the correct or proper path to spiritual enlightenment.

Reality contains the dreaming of un-reality, but is beyond it. Reality is whole and all that is, right here, right now. If that means self-righteous, bigoted and narcissistic behaviour, then it is also that.

Liberation is very normal, ordinary and unromantic. Gurdjieff was known to do such things. As for Nisargadatta, he does comment on whether Osho, or Rajneesh is enlightened He is tremendous — he is very big. He is a great sage. Right, on all counts! When we judge others and question that judgement, then turn it around to ourselves, that is the fire and purification. YOU are unique. YOU are perfect. True, he is a thorn to remove thorns, then they are all thrown.

Jed Mckenna exists no more than you or I exist. The books stand on their own even if they were signed by a non-dual incarnation of Micky Mouse. To each his own. JM has his own website, the wisefool one; why not use that? In the days of Internet I have to say I doubt it. No exceptions. So, where does that leave you? Back at Square One. What you are seeking is that which is seeking. I am that which is aware that I am. So, you create one, just like everything else, just create it and assign it the task of letting go.

After a while, you can fire his ass because the letting go will continue spontaneously. Eventually you will realize that there was nothing to let go of and Jed was just giving you something to do in your spare time. I am pointing at getting sane. Of course when everyone else is on the other side of an imaginary fence, you might be inclined to side with the majority. Every one of you can figure out this imponderable. Regardless of who you are or where you are. Forget about that because You, on the other hand, may be looking through a crack in the door.

Focus on the un-measurable something that everything, including that door, occurs in. The good news is, if you win, everyone wins. If you lose, everyone wins also in the end. Just go for it. Let go and fly. It just might be your turn. Oh well, the story continues.

Did Christ really exist? The story exist that has hidden meanings. Whatever happens in life I can learn from it. He does end his statements with Love, Jed. Yes, but JM is not Nisargadatta, not even close.

Lots of what JM was saying, his 1,2,3 liners in his forum was also brilliant, but funny enough even a parrot can speak Truth. Everything has its time. It was probably good for me to take part of his forum for a while and maybe I should thank him for kicking me out. I was visiting the forum shortly after I was kicked out, but after a while I lost my interest. Those who still hang out with him in his forum I guess will sooner or later will have to move on, because JM can not give them what they want, salvation.

This ultimate trip they have to do on their own! This is why he says f-k Bliss, Love etc. This is how existence will be seen when in terms of Void, Nothingness. In Nothingness there is no Love etc, there is just empty space.

There are kind of steps in the Awakening process. After this Shakti will be activated and its here we start to see everything in terms of Love, Bliss, Compassion. You can use anyone, the false and the not-so false, for whatever they are is what we think they are, for we live in our own worlds.

As he described about Nisargadatta:. He said there is no need of moderator on this forum because its free speech here! So I guess there are plenty of ego remaining in this guy! Sure he has got a certain degree of awakening, but I think he mostly want to make money and play a role as a spiritual teacher!

Concerning his fake identity. This is odd! Why would he do this? Is it fear or he want to hide something!? Some believe JM is Adyashanti! If one have listened to Adya there is no way that he has a slightest resemblance to JM. I also see many contradicitions in JM, as well as Osho.

Truth is All, and all we can say is dualtistic. I myself? Who wants to live in smelly place? Sure the divine One is there too, but covered up with the false, and the false is nauseating.

I find the false in me nauseating. Who drops what? There is much contradiction in the books, though sometimes that seems as much a good thing as not… For example, how can a person who claims to have no preference for living over dying have a preference for NY over LA?

Does that compute? One thing I think I have noticed hanging out with Dave Oshana http:daveoshana. Not putting it very well, but JM says something like that, when he says that he wears the JM ID like a skin or a costume, a role that he is less and less able to get into.

So when JM says he hates LA, maybe that is him, the enlightened being, getting all the way into character as JM, the false self he has shed? In which case, hating LA could be as valid a way for him to get in character as anything else. JM the character seems deliberately contrived to challenge New Age assumptions about how an enlightened being would act — he smokes cigars, eats meat, skydives, eskews meditation and compassion, and so on.

There are two questions that overlap: is JM the author the same as JM the character, and is he enlightened; and is JM, and the descriptions of enlightenment, an accurate depiction of the enlightened state? Like Moby Dick is an apparent account of a psychopath but really acc to JM a map for truth-realization, perhaps JM is couching all his descriptions in a context he deems appropriate for the unawakened reader?

And so on. There is much mystery about who JM is and if he exists as described in the books, etc. In the first book, he writes about having a large house in Iowa with a constant stream of seekers coming through, some of whom even get enlightened. They seem like they could have been entirely invented, albeit with details taken from reality, like his experiences of skydiving, etc.

The books have a didactic quality to them — teachings that are framed within a storytelling narrative, to make them more palatable and entertaining. He sees it as a destructive, even psychopathic, process, destroying all that is not true so that whatever remains must be truth. The primary emotional drive for Jed seems to be hatred for the false. That seems a bit extreme — maybe rebellious, adolescent sort of energy. But it also seems a long arduous road to truth, as opposed to recognizing that only truth exists, anyway, so what needs to be destroyed?

We are free to put down our ego-load at any given moment. The belief that we are not free, and must instead travel the world destroying every last vestige of delusion that imprisons us — I think it has something to do with a refusal to admit that we could have just stepped outside the prison of our egos any time we wanted. So we need to turn it into a heroic journey. Or maybe even, the Hero Unmasked? This is a very humbling process, to know we know nothing.

I can only do it for me, whoever that is…. Helden I sympathize with you about the overuse of words like shit, but I believe that Joe was both the author and object of that comment based upon the source IP address, among other things.

Perhaps we will find out later. I can answer that. The idea behind that kind of language is to cut off or interfere with legitimate discussion by adults. I can read. I can think. I can meditate, and I can look elsewhere. Tripping over these anonymous characters is something I neither need nor want. To be truthful, it made the rest of it sound a bit disingenuous.

Remember, nothing ever happened. The fear is too great. If the system were to collapse, there will be more fear. Thanks Anonymous for your gracious offering. I think a good number of people like yours truly would like to know this- since so many of your characteristics and attitudes are shared by fools like me, and I can relate very well to all you say, how did the coup d grace occur for you? Was it a gradual wearing out, or a sudden moment where you shifted in a most fundamental way into stable, full whatever-you-call-it?

However, after having read Bernadette Roberts three books on the matter, the picture became even clearer. More good books of the non-bs variety! Words took us away and words will bring us back to show us we went nowhere, we were only dreaming. Seeing the futility of itself, seeing the absurdity of itself, seeing the anguish that it creates, it disappears. But it happens through intelligence.

You got yourself into your present state through verbal thinking, you must get out of it the same way. There is so much material. I was never involved with Osho, but from all the acquaintances I have, I would have to completely agree with you Ruben. For me it was so amazing, to fall head over heels in love with Truth. It did get weird In Oregon because the woman in charge went bonkers with power and by the time He exposed it it was too late. Surrender has been used for thousands of years in India, from the Upanishads to Zen, but its success rate is minimal, but way more so than the others.

You can learn from everyone. When Jed says he is in awe of his mind, I have to feel the same way. For an Indian guy whose aim was to read all the books of the world, and speak so eloquently about what he found turned me on to the greatest minds of human history that include Buddha, the Upanishads, Krishna, Heraclitus, Tilopa, Saraha, Jesus, and all the Zen guys.

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Plutonium Reveries 8. Feeding Moloch 9. Winter River 2. Search Myspace Start typing Please try again. Photo from. You're now in slide show mode. Forgot password? Keep me signed in. Your email? The email you used to create your account.

The last part of your Myspace URL. Ex: myspace. Facebook Twitter Email. Full Name? General Comment i liked this song cuz of the PSP commercial. General Comment And many gees? General Comment i love this song severalways on October 07, Link.

General Comment Basically, he's fallen [falling] for some girl and its making his emotions go out of wack. Embody Music on November 27, Link. Embody Music. General Comment This song kind of makes me think of the novel "Wuthering Heights", and the characters Heathcliff and Catherine for some reason. General Comment i think it's She's out of control not shit.